Ranking system gets on my nerves!

[Ironspine]

I tried to search for a relevant discussion but could not find one.

Anyway, the point is that I honestly frigging hate the ranking system from the bottom of my heart. The game is excellent and really addictive, but the ranking system is often really counter-rewarding, frustrating, annoying and what not. In my sincere opinion it's the only flaw in the game. Often I feel that I'm playing Cabals for virtual money - I win some and lose some. But I don't want to gamble with my score. Call me a wuss and immature casual gamer kid who can't lose, but I really am not enjoying when I spend an hour or two collecting some points and then lose all gains in one or two games. And I'm back at the starting point. Yes. This just happened to me and I'm again thinking what is the point in playing the game when I feel like I'm being punished for playing the game for Supernatural Spirit-Being sakes. I actually played the single player game for some time, but beating the AI's ass is just too easy and it does not give me the same challenge as playing against actual players in online mode. Ergo, I currently prefer online mode.

Well, there is the XP, but in my opinion it doesn't fix this issue. My suggestion is that you would not lose any points - ever. Unless the board is reset ofcourse. This way a crappy casual gamer - like me - could also enjoy the couple of hours of effort put to the game. For instance, at the moment I feel that I just wasted three or so hours of my time. I don't care about the leaderboards, but I do keep track of the points I have. I don't have the time or interest to really keep up with the top-notch hard-core elite players, so there really isn't competition for me in there. But the score tells me how I am progressing in the game - now it tells me that I suck at the game and don't deserve the points I just grinded an hour ago in the very same game.

What I'm asking is that let me have the joy of having some progress for every game I play. Some feeling of achievement and advancement. Better or more eager players would just gain points faster.

I apologize for this frustration driven rant and thank you for reading it. I feel relief for getting it out of my system. Good night. I will go now and cry my casual gamer ass to sleep for being such an under-achiever.

[Rarak]

Well the system is actually setup to make it easier for lower ranked players to catch up to the higher ranked ones, as you will gain many more points than you will lose. To progress in rank you either need to improve (in skill, deck composition) or play more games.

For competitive players (such as myself) the ranking system is essential and is one of my favourite aspects of the game (this is something Ascension lacks).

On the other hand there are a lot of bugs and most of my losses are due to bugs which to me is the biggest issue with this game.

[tatterdemalion]

Ironspine I hear your pain on losing everything after a poor couple of games, yesterday I started at 1809, played for an hour and got over 1900, played for another hour and ended up somewhere in the mid 1700s.

The thing is that is honestly I deserved too. I played badly, maybe got a poor draw but really I know that with that deck I only really play at a ~1800 level. The rating system isn't meant to be an indicator of endless progress (like xp points) but an indicator of your skill with that deck measured against the skill of all the other players. If ratings only ever went up then the top player would simply be the guy that played the most games.

[Void]

The rating system isn't meant to be an indicator of endless progress (like xp points) but an indicator of your skill with that deck measured against the skill of all the other players. If ratings only ever went up then the top player would simply be the guy that played the most games.

This is very true, I could not agree more.

Ironespine, my advice to you is not to worry about the rating system. Just play for fun and measure yourself on how much you have imporved as a player. You will have more fun that way.

[Mip]

If you however want to still play cabals and not risk rating, you can try out friendly matches on the IRC-chat. Depending on your time zone it may or may not be busy there.

Another option is to join the tournament that will start next week which consists of friendly matches (see tournament section).

Before the ladder reset you could keep on gaining rating by beating bots, that also wasn't fun, you might not lose a lot, but you also couldn't really catch up with those who were already playing for a long time. Now it is possible to reach top 10 in 2-3 days if you got the time in the weekend.

[Ironspine]

Yeah. I can rationalize why the system is as is. But I still hate it

Just not my thing. Love the game anyway, so I will continue offering my points in online matches for more fortunate or skilled players than me.

I was thinking that wouldn't it be the same thing if you would get 50 or so points more score for games than now? Result would be the same except, scores would go higher than nice few thousand or so. Many other games use XP system where players are matched based on their total score. I am not an expert in multiplayer ranking stuff, so please tell me what is wrong with this kind of system.

One more thing: Getting same amount of XP for each match in online mode would also fix the thing in my opinion. I enjoyed playing the single player and getting at leat some XP for losses also - each game I play is a learning experience, right? When AI got boring as an opponent, I switched to multiplayer. At first you didn't get any XP for playing the multiplayer. Now, after an update, at least some. But in my opinion I should get same XP for multiplayer games as single player - actual players as opponents are much more challenging than AI, so why wouldn't I get the same Xp. If this would be the case I would ve happy with the system and satisfy for grinding XP instead of leaderboard ranking - regardless of my success when playing against others. Ranking would still work just fine for me for pairing the players.

What comes to friendly matches and tournaments, I think they are a very good addition to the game and community, but unfortunately my life situation does not really allow to use those that much. Father of four small children So I basically play when I have some spare time and this tends to be very situational.

[Mip]

If you lower the amount of points you lose for a loss, it will only reward the most playing amongst us. The more you play, the higher your rating. Which doesn't make it a rating more of a total games played counter. This will get really frustrating over the long run. There will almost always be people with more time than you have. Now at least the highest rated players also seem to not skyrocket up. So you atleast have a steady target to move towards.

Imagine the idea of having to win atleast another 400 games for 5 points before you come close to the top, not even counting compensations for eventual losses. That is what you get when you lower the punishment for losing and increase the rewards for winning.

Say we have two people one with rating A and one with rating B. Say A gains 5 points for winning and loses 25 for losing. That means you just have to beat him 5 out of 6 times. The other players who are your rating apparantly also do so. If you can't, you should drop down a bit or he should rise a bit. The matchup system isn't out there just to mess up your specific score. You get a smaller rating decrease against new players, since their 1200 is only a first guess, so the system doesn't blame you too much for losing to them, since they might just be alternative accounts. And they can gain a lot of points in their first few games to quickly get a better guess for their skill level and to not disturb the rating system a lot.

I think adding a few more columns might be more rewarding to those who want a nice linear progression of their skill level. Perhaps add a column for numbers of games won this season and a column with a win percentage.

My basic point is this: the reward and decrease need to be in a certain ratio to prevent the rating system from exploding and becoming ever higher. Sure you can lower the penalty for losing, but you'd also need to decrease the reward for winning if you don't want to end with impossibly high ratings. And then we'll complain about not getting enough for winning instead of complaining about too much lost for losing.

A re-post from viewtopic.php?f=5&t=401&start=10. Perhaps a change up in the exp gained from online battles would be nice, but I don't really care that much about it. Perhaps just single player exp * (rating opponent/own rating), but I'm not sure that won't be able to get exploited somehow, since forfeits in friendly games also give your exp.

[Grahaminator]

Getting same amount of XP for each match in online mode would also fix the thing in my opinion. I enjoyed playing the single player and getting at leat some XP for losses also - each game I play is a learning experience, right? When AI got boring as an opponent, I switched to multiplayer. At first you didn't get any XP for playing the multiplayer. Now, after an update, at least some. But in my opinion I should get same XP for multiplayer games as single player - actual players as opponents are much more challenging than AI, so why wouldn't I get the same Xp.

I could agree with getting more xp for online losses (couple hundred at most maybe depending on the time or how many of your opponents cards you dealt with or special tiles captured duritn the game) but I don't think you should get xp at the same rate as in single player for wins since at that point what is the point of playing single player. Limits could be set for how much you can gain per day / per opponent so you cant try and exploit the system.

[Nuurori]

at that point what is the point of playing single player.

Why should there be any point of playing the single player? Don't we rather want to have more real people online, to challenge us, to be challenged by us or even give some sense of community instead of rewarding them from staying out while we end up playing bots?

Also on the original topic: Its hard to play a competitive game and just enjoy playing it, not worrying about your loss of rank. I don't think I'm the only one here who has problems approaching things casually

[MagicSausage]

it's true, the ranking thing is very distracting. I much rather there's another option to play non-ladder pvp. I like to just make a silly deck and play for the heck of it. My current ranking prevents me from playing a lot of people, at the same time I don't want to lose games just so I can play more people. I rather have no ranking at all.